Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
Hand 1 is a problem, since you called PRE to set mine getting 5:1, closing the action and playing 4-handed with great implied odds, but then bet with no set OTF, OOP.

PRE, I don't mind a call or a raise. If you raise here, you'll probably get similar odds after the callers, and you have a slim chance to take it down PRE. Plus, you have a hand that plays extremely easily post-flop. I mean, you'll pretty much know whether you're ahead or behind with 77.

OTF, you change your plan from flopping a set and go ahead and donk full pot with an overpair. I don't like this part. I mean, this is the thinnest of value, and is more likely to get called when it's beat or worse, raised OTF ('cause what are you repping?). If you're trying to take it down now, I'd try for a c/r. - If I c/r though, what am I repping that I flatted with in the BB? I certainly wouldn't c/r with a set on this board, I would lead out, maybe 2P? I also wouldn't take TT+ to this flop 4 handed, I would 3bet pre to give my hand more protection. Also, if I check and it checks around, there is almost no turn card I like and I have probably lost my opportunity to win the pot when I probably had the best hand?

Sizing:
The board is pretty dry. I mean, rainbow, and all low cards in a raised pot. It's not as strong as if you'd 3-bet PRE, since there's basically nothing in their ranges that hits this but sets and Axs. I don't mind the sizing; the board's not wet enough to justify an overbet. If it was not a rainbow with same ranks, I'd probably bet $0.90, though.

I'd rather c/r, though. You might get a free turn card, and you have much better odds of getting the bluff through.

What is SB repping now? I mean, if he's got { 63,62,32 } in his range, then he's got all kinds of trash in there. An overpair that didn't raise PRE? (Hero did it, why not?) { 66,33,22,54 } is pretty narrow considering how wide he'd have to be to call pre... but if you're note says he's passive, then that's what he's got. There's just no way you can expect 77 to be good when there's no draws but gutshots out there. - I know I am beat when SB raises, was more concerned with my first action on this flop.
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Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
Hand 2 is completely different.

Hand 2 is HU to the flop, it's a paired board, Villain has a much tighter range going into the flop, your PP is above the non-paired board card, AND you had initiative from the previous street. Not to mention the clubs.

The greater problem here is that you view these hands as similar circumstances.

Not all over-pairs are created equal.
I didn't explain myself very well at all last night. I didn't mean it was the same spot or situation, I just meant I had another overpair to the board. I do realise they are completely different hands in terms of villain, villain's ranges, number of villain's, strength of my hand, position etc etc etc. So that's my bad.

Quote Originally Posted by kickass View Post
I kinda like the lead in h1 purely for protection vs all the overs that are out there if flop gets chked thru but we likely have the best hand now, once we get raised snap folds obv. Your bet certainly doesn't need to be pot sized. Pre is fine and is better than raising IMO
That is the point I was trying to make so poorly. What bet sizing would you suggest? I think if I bet 2/3 PSB I would prob get at least 1 call?